Margareta Dovgal went head-to-head with BC Green Party Leader Emily Lowan, live on CKNW’s The Mike Smyth Show (Dec. 11th, 2025) to debate the proposed Alberta-to-BC oil pipeline. While Emily Lowan dismissed the project as a distraction, Margareta argued that market access is critical for solving Canada’s affordability crisis and strengthening national unity. Listen to the full exchange on Indigenous equity, global demand, and the path forward for Canadian energy.
The Bottom Line: We cannot solve Canada’s affordability crisis by blocking our own economic potential. This project offers a clear path to Indigenous economic reconciliation and national prosperity, proving that we are a united Confederation rather than just a loose collection of provinces. It’s time to move beyond the rhetoric and build the infrastructure that secures full value for our resources and pays for our shared future.
The following is a transcript of the debate regarding the proposed Alberta-to-BC oil pipeline, aired on CKNW’s The Mike Smyth Show on December 11, 2025.
Mike Smyth: What an awesome panel I’ve got for you right now. Emily Lowan is here. Emily is the leader of the BC Green Party. Emily, thanks for coming on.
Emily Lowan: Hello, great to be here.
Mike Smyth: It’s great to have you here. Also on the line is Margareta Dovgal. Margareta is Managing Director at the Resource Works Society and she supports a pipeline. Margareta, thanks for coming on.
Margareta Dovgal: Hey, good morning, Mike.
Mike Smyth: Okay, thank you to both of you. Emily Lowan, you’re the leader of the BC Green Party. How big of an issue is this for you? Your thoughts on this pipeline idea?
Emily Lowan: I mean, this project is a fantasy and it’s a distraction from our affordability crisis. And when we look, you know, at what Danielle Smith is doing in Alberta right now, she can’t even decide if she wants to be part of the same country as us. And yet, as we discovered over the weekend, Eby is ready to fold and spend billions of our taxpayer dollars on this pet project. I mean, just a few weekends ago she was booed by her own AGM supporters for saying that she wants to work with Canada. So I think, you know, this project is so hypothetical. Obviously, there’s fierce opposition from Coastal First Nations, Eby and my party. And so, you know, Danielle Smith needs to decide if she wants to be part of the same country, and then, you know, then we can talk about an MOU.
Mike Smyth: Margareta, your thoughts?
Margareta Dovgal: Yeah, for sure. No, I think Prime Minister Carney deserves some real kudos. He’s reading the temperature in the room. He understands that we need egress for our most valuable export commodity. That’s how we solve affordability issues, by growing our economy. And the path to success he’s outlined is effective negotiation with BC and Nations. They’ve set a really high bar. I think that’s deliberate. Some may argue overly high, but it makes sense. And, you know, just look at what Trans Mountain proved to us. We’re now getting a better price for our product. The cost differential is narrowing. That’s paying for the pipe. And I think that’s just proof in the pudding that projects like this is how we pay the bills.
Mike Smyth: Emily, what do you say to that?
Emily Lowan: Yeah, look, let’s talk about Trans Mountain. It took over 12 years to build. It took $50 billion in taxpayer pockets, and it can’t even operate at full capacity. And you know, I think it’s important to also look at global markets here. Even JP Morgan predicts that oil prices will fall by 50% in the next two years. So I think the only thing that this project would do is line the pockets of the oil lobbyists who run Danielle Smith’s office. The majority of oil and gas projects are actually backed by American equity. So, you know, this “elbows up” shtick really doesn’t hold when you look at where the profits go and who actually owns this oil.
Mike Smyth: Margareta, what do you say to that?
Margareta Dovgal: Yeah, you know, short-term commodity cycles don’t—and shouldn’t—distract from the fact that we’re a civilization that runs on oil and gas. 80% of the world’s energy needs today are met with oil and gas products. And that’s just the reality of the world we live in. We have one of the world’s most valuable products to sell. The world wants that. We need to diversify. The way we do that is by working with Nations, working with communities, to get to as much, you know, consensus as is possible. But sometimes you have to work in the national interest to get big projects built. And I think this is a brave move forward and exactly the kind of thing we need to grow the economy.
Mike Smyth: Speaking of consensus, Emily… I’m wondering if you think that—you called this a “fantasy project” here—I wonder if you think that we’re talking about this a lot, this pipeline idea, but realistically on the ground, do you think it will ever get built? Like we just heard that clip from Elizabeth May, the federal Green Party leader, saying there’s no way in hell this thing is going to get built, there’re not enough bulldozers to stop the people from rising up against this project. Like, do you think that there would be such fierce opposition from, let’s say First Nations on the coast, North Coast of BC, that the project just won’t happen?
Emily Lowan: Yeah. So Coastal First Nations have been abundantly clear. Their position has not moved an inch. They will not see any change to the tanker ban on the coast. And yeah, there’s fierce opposition to this oil pipeline. And this is actually what canceled the Northern Gateway pipeline in the 2010s. The Coastal First Nations opposition caused Enbridge to scale back from the project. And so we’ve seen this play out before. You know, how about let’s save ourselves a decade and just focus on the real work of building a clean, renewable economy, funding good union jobs that will actually get us out of this cost of living crisis.
Mike Smyth: Margareta, a quick comment from you, then we’ll fit in a quick break here. Go ahead.
Margareta Dovgal: Yeah, for sure. We’re in a Confederation. And the whole point of being in a country like Canada, rather than a loose collection of autonomous sovereignties, is being able to advance shared objectives. And as it comes to the duty to consult, duty to accommodate, none of that is a veto for Nations. That’s what reasonable people interpret from the Constitution. I also wouldn’t rule out Indigenous ownership. I think we’re going to see strong indicators of that. And the MOU lays the groundwork there. So, yeah, lots to come, but I think we’re in a good position and we just have to work through it. And Carney and Smith are clearly leading in this way.
Mike Smyth: Okay guys, let me jump in there. We’ll fit the break in right there. We’ll come back with more on the other side. It’s our pipeline debate here to kick off our show today on a super busy news day. My guests are Emily Lowan, leader of the BC Green Party. Margareta Dovgal from Resource Works. Both sides of it for you. All right. Phone me now with your thoughts, your questions, your comments on the pipeline fight. This one really blew up in Ottawa the last couple of days. Are you for or against another oil pipeline from Alberta to the North Coast of BC? 604-280-9898 is the number to call. 604-280-9898. Star 9898 on your cell. Emily Lowan, Margareta Dovgal are my guests. This is Mike Smyth back with your calls.
[Commercial Break]
Mike Smyth: …Right now we’re debating the pipeline. This one really blew up in Ottawa last couple of days. Emily Lowan is here from the—leader of the BC Green Party, opposed to the pipeline of course. Margareta Dovgal, Resource Works, supports the pipeline. James in Kelowna. Hi James, go ahead.
James (Caller): Yeah, I say build the pipeline. Let’s get that stuff flowing. It’s going to build the economy, it’ll create jobs. And you know what Mike? As far as protests go, and resistance to this whole thing, I think the federal government, since this is a federal project—the coastline does not belong to BC, it belongs to Canada—I think the federal government has shown very clearly how they deal with protests over the last few years. Call in the RCMP, call in the military. That’s what they’ve shown they want to do. So let’s get it done.
Mike Smyth: Okay, thank you for that. Margareta, at the end of the day, when we talk about the jurisdiction on this… The federal government does hold the hammer here. This is federal jurisdiction, this project, right?
Margareta Dovgal: Bing, bing. Yep. It’s not the Premier’s call. And the job of the Prime Minister is to create the conditions for important conversations to happen. He needs to hear everyone out. That’s his job in a democracy. But at the end of the day, they do have the jurisdiction. And if they want to get this project built, if they satisfy requirements to accommodate and consult, then they can get the thing done.
Mike Smyth: Emily Lowan, what do you say to that?
Emily Lowan: Yeah. So let’s talk about the history of this tanker ban. It actually had multi-party support in the 2010s because, you know, BC needs to protect its coastline for ecological reasons, but also, you know, with our own economy. This is—we can’t afford to have our economy crashed in BC because of a massive oil tanker spill, which feels like an inevitability when we look at the research and the probability of that. Um, and I think it’s just, it’s fundamentally absurd that this project would ever be considered a nation-building project. Of course, we want to move away from exporting to the US, that’s great, I support that, but in the case of oil, the Asian markets we’re looking for are quite literally evaporating. China’s oil consumption peaked last year, they’re electrifying quickly, and are simply not going to be a part of the oil conversation by the time this pipeline would come online. I think it’s a mirage.
Mike Smyth: Richard in Burnaby. Hi Richard, go ahead.
Richard (Caller): Yes, I think it’s highly hypocritical of the Indigenous people and the environmentalists to try and stand in the way of economic progress. I would have more sympathy for them if they turned around and said, “Okay, no reconciliation payments during this time to help support Canada,” as well as the environmental movement. And the facts and figures about – the world is not turning away from oil consumption, that’s a complete lie. The world is building industrialization…
Mike Smyth: Okay, okay. Thank you for that. Let’s give Emily a chance to defend herself there. Emily, go ahead. What do you say to him?
Emily Lowan: Yeah, well… I think it’s, it’s—we are seeing an accelerating global transition to electrifying economies. We’re seeing this in China, we’re seeing this in many countries in Europe. And it’s also, it’s important to look at, um, you know, where the forecast is headed. As I said, JP Morgan predicts that oil prices will fall by 50% in the next two years. Um, and so I think we need to look very clearly about these bitumen markets. And I mean, maybe we’re looking at different numbers, but I’m looking at these standard assumptions and these markets are evaporating. And we’re foreclosing opportunities here to move to renewables and alternative economies.
Mike Smyth: Margareta, what do you say to that?
Margareta Dovgal: Yeah, you know, if proponents are willing to risk billions of private capital on those market conditions, I would put some real stock in that. And if we look at the regulatory, legislative hurdles in the way of them being able to take that risk, um, then I think we can create the conditions for success. But to the last caller’s point, Indigenous peoples aren’t a monolith. And I think there is going to be a lot of Indigenous support for this project. And very likely, that is how we’re going to get another pipeline to the coast built.
Mike Smyth: Kevin in Burnaby. Hi Kevin, go ahead.
Kevin (Caller): Hey, I just think that it’s kind of funny how the Green Party… she just keeps kind of giving strawman arguments and distracting, bringing up the Alberta separation thing, when focusing on some sort of hybridization program with oil and green energy efforts would be more effective than just fighting something with, I guess, more vitriol. Like, it’s—she kind of seems like she’s more divided against this country than most of Canada.
Mike Smyth: Okay. Emily, what do you say to him?
Emily Lowan: That—couldn’t be further from the case here. I think, you know, what I want to see is not another pipeline fight that divides this country. I want provinces to be working, um, on projects like publicly owned renewables that will offer three times the number of union jobs, um, that will actually put money back into workers’ pockets and lower our energy bills, not jack them up with the volatility of an oil pipeline. And, you know, we wouldn’t have to deal with Alberta to do that. And there’s work that we can do with Alberta on transmission lines. That’s being cut out of the conversation right now.
Mike Smyth: Okay. Margareta, we just have 30 seconds left sadly. Margareta, you get the last word here. Go ahead.
Margareta Dovgal: Yeah, you know, this MOU, it’s a national unity play. And, you know, it is actually… electricity is in the MOU. The feds and Alberta are now talking about energy and climate files that they’ve not been discussing for a long time, because they’re willing now to have that conversation about getting a pipe to BC’s coast. I think that’s really important. It’s in the interest of Canada as a whole to get this project built.Mike Smyth: Okay. Thank you to both of you for a really good discussion. I appreciate both of you here and I would love to have you both back. Emily Lowan there is the leader of the BC Green Party, opposed to the pipeline of course. Margareta Dovgal, Resource Works, she supports the pipeline. Both sides of it for you. Thanks a lot for your calls.
